tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4931948236571195668.post6484297901977671643..comments2023-09-24T05:45:48.350-04:00Comments on One Hand On The Radio: Bats In Our AtticKithttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17456824676841760384noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4931948236571195668.post-54923035867147518712011-11-08T19:22:32.977-05:002011-11-08T19:22:32.977-05:00As Paul said to the Galatians "write on "...As Paul said to the Galatians "write on ". I love everything you write that refers to Dad, Pooh or Bats. Love you, AnneAnnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05664010540075996930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4931948236571195668.post-75936280126438351342011-10-28T13:16:13.903-04:002011-10-28T13:16:13.903-04:00Goodness, Galen, there is much to think about in y...Goodness, Galen, there is much to think about in your comment. <br /><br />First of all, Todd and I thank you for your gracious remarks, especially as regards our fledgling understanding of the phenomenology of bats. <br /><br />It is Todd who did the spade work here, building upon a happenstance occurrence some years ago while on holiday in Malaysian Borneo. He came across a group of Megabats roosting under the overhang of a verandah, and observed them to be swaying and flapping wings in unison to "Sweet Talkin' Guy" by the Chiffons. We built upon this initial observation, eventually elaborating a (provisional) typology of bats' listening preferences. Admittedly, this falls short of Dr. Nagel's interest in the subjectivity of bats but we feel it's a beginning.<br /><br />Second, and with reference to Nagel, your citation sent me to Google. It seems that some humans <i>do</i> possess echolocating capacities, examples being those of blind people who use "clicking" and cane-tapping sounds to locate the presence and even nature of unseen objects. The process is called <i>acoustic wayfinding</i>, and it results (I think) from a cross-modal brain reorganization involving acoustic sensations and visual cortex. I am out of my depth here, and I do not think this controverts Nagel; if anything, it highlights the gap between an echolocating person's awareness of an unseen object and its subjective representation. (How we picture anything, whether we are sighted or non-sighted, is interesting as well—but as to this I am even more out of my depth.)<br /><br />Finally, I now know how to rid a space of unwanted bats. You open one door or window, shut all other doors and windows, and eventually the bat finds its way out. Turning lights on might hasten the process, I guess, but I'm not sure; nor would I want to harass the bat. I imagine an open-floor-plan structure might complicate this since you want to block off and limit the space in which the bat maneuvers. Also, this method applies essentially to Microbats, not Megabats; but as we're not living, for instance, in Australia, that shouldn't be a problem.<br /><br />I tried this last August in the Maritimes when a bat flew out of our basement into the kitchen. It took a few minutes but then it worked, with no need for any "tools" to hasten its departure.<br /><br />Thanks again, Galen.Kithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17456824676841760384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4931948236571195668.post-64600561504405107402011-10-27T13:27:05.215-04:002011-10-27T13:27:05.215-04:00Wow, Kit (and Todd), you have outdone yourselves h...Wow, Kit (and Todd), you have outdone yourselves here. Well worth the wait! You know that I also have recently been interested in all these paleo-sciences, in particular in the prehistoric cave art in France and Spain from the Magdalenian era dating as far back as 18,000BCE, all of which is quite amazing. But I've not yet run across any references to bats in the caves at Lascaux or Chauvet, though they must have been there. Magdalenian men, women, and children, who left us their handprints as the first self-portraits, certainly must not have found bats to be one of the most alien life forms on the planet, as I certainly do today in spite of your excellent efforts at the end to make them more lovable. I once was trapped in a room with such a creature, me being the dad asked to save the family. No fun. <br /> But I have to admire your discussion of this incredible neurological wiring and ear apparatus certain bat species possess for echolocation, since I also have long been interested in the similarities and differences between seeing and hearing, also touching. Your blog has reminded me of one of the most famous philosophy articles published in the 20th century. It was written by Thomas Nagel of NYU, titled "What is it like to be a bat?" I'm not kidding. Nagel takes bats to be a limit case for the question of consciousness, which is that problem of knowing that there is an interior life in other persons and animals and understanding what it might be like. The problem is achingly non-abstract in extreme end of life situations as well as an everyday set of questions for those of us who live with animals but fall short of being horse or dog whisperers or Temple Grandin with her cows. Here is a relevant excerpt from Nagel highlighting echolocation: "I assume we all believe that bats have experience. After all, they are mammals . . . . Now we know that most bats (the microchiroptera, to be precise) perceive the external world primarily by sonar, or echolocation, detecting the reflections, from objects within range, of their own rapid, subtly modulated, high-frequency shrieks. Their brains are designed to correlate the outgoing impulses with the subsequent echoes, and the information thus acquired enables bats to make precise discriminations of distance, size, shape, motion, and texture comparable to those we make by vision. But bat sonar, though clearly a form of perception, is not similar in its operation to any sense that we possess, and there is no reason to suppose that it is subjectively like anything we can experience or imagine. This appears to create difficulties for the notion of what it is like to be a bat." <br /> Unlike Nagel, your blog gives us a pretty powerful imaginative account of bat experience, including even their various song preferences. Wow, I like that; nice songs too. I think all this means that in addition to being good at the science, you are also good at the psychology, or what we in philosophy call phenomenology. That is precisely how Nagel concluded his famous article: "We would have to develop such a phenomenology to describe the sonar experiences of bats; but it would also be possible to begin with humans. One might try, for example, to develop concepts that could be used to explain to a person blind from birth what it was like to see. One would reach a blank wall eventually, but it should be possible to devise a method of expressing in objective terms much more than we can at present, and with much greater precision." I think that you (and Todd) have provided an account of the interior life of bats that is quite remarkable and rises to Nagel's challenge. <br /> Just in case, here's one of many links to the famous article by Nagel. http://organizations.utep.edu/Portals/1475/nagel_bat.pdf If this one doesn't work for you, a quick online search will turn it up. Thanks for a remarkably diverse, informative, and often humorous post. Enjoyed it!Galen Johnsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4931948236571195668.post-91102708841477131932011-10-21T21:39:11.167-04:002011-10-21T21:39:11.167-04:00Thank you very much, Jan. Todd and I did spend ti...Thank you very much, Jan. Todd and I did spend time on the bats' playlists (I like them too), and I appreciate your feedback about them as well as your generous comments overall.Kithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17456824676841760384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4931948236571195668.post-68717290846199410752011-10-21T20:27:16.168-04:002011-10-21T20:27:16.168-04:00Kit, your posts are always intriguing and fun to r...Kit, your posts are always intriguing and fun to read. I love the musical choices for this post. In addition to being entertaining, there is a lot of food for thought regarding the interactions of humans with our environment and the other creatures that inhabit this planet. Well worth the two months of waiting for a new post.<br /><br />JanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4931948236571195668.post-37412009943359085892011-10-11T10:43:30.019-04:002011-10-11T10:43:30.019-04:00Many thanks, Douglas. And a nod here to Todd, who...Many thanks, Douglas. And a nod here to Todd, who really stepped up on this post, pointing out connections which were initially opaque to me. He is a credit to his species as well.Kithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17456824676841760384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4931948236571195668.post-86345930992330670242011-10-11T06:06:15.201-04:002011-10-11T06:06:15.201-04:00Dear Kit,
I am grateful to you for shining a light...Dear Kit,<br />I am grateful to you for shining a light on the insufficiently discussed relationships among vampiric bats, poutine and bovine flatulence.<br />That you were able to turn this into a musical is an extra treat. You are a credit to your species.<br />DouglasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4931948236571195668.post-91288040991080392132011-10-09T10:43:03.115-04:002011-10-09T10:43:03.115-04:00Thank you, Penny. The admiration is mutual. And ...Thank you, Penny. The admiration is mutual. And Todd and I like the idea of a sequel.Kithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17456824676841760384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4931948236571195668.post-83304440649293752972011-10-08T18:09:35.819-04:002011-10-08T18:09:35.819-04:00Kit --
As your cousin, and a long-time admirer of...Kit --<br /><br />As your cousin, and a long-time admirer of both you AND bats, I must compliment you on this treatise. I thought I knew a little something about the subject... Well, guess again! I enjoyed reading everything you wrote, and commend you and Jody for your patience with your little houseguests. Dave and I have managed to keep our complement of bats either in or on our barn, and love to see them setting out on their evening's rounds of insect-hunting on warm summer nights. Do compose a sequel to this next year, when your bats come back and find their B&B closed to them...<br /><br />Love,<br />PennyPennynoreply@blogger.com